Hate mail has been good-n-plenty this Christmas, so I’m sure you’ll excuse the frequent updates to the section. Today’s edition is the Stanic R. Zelimir files! Also, check out the left sidebar and the unauthorized baptism and directions on reversing it because I’m here to help.
Added today (Jan 6th) a response from Stanic and the child who mailed me his soul (left sidebar)
22 thoughts on “The Stanic R. Zelimir complaints & inquiries”
People who think like this are incredibly scary. If, for them, it really takes a belief in god to not do evil shit, I hope like hell they never stop believing, for the sake of everyone involved.
When I hear things of this nature, I get really depressed. I mean, REALLY? Are there really people out there who need to be threatened with eternal hellfire to keep themselves from doing evil shit? What kind of fucking morality is THAT?
Even scarier: What if these are the majority, rather than the minority? What if these sociopaths (for that is what they are, let’s face it: no concern for others, unless threatened with eternal hellfire? Fucking scary…) are the majority? I think I may have just lost what little faith in humanity I might have had left. We’re all fucking doomed.
Again we have a situation where someone does not understand the basic concepts of evolution. This gentleman thinks it means “the strong survive and there is no empathy or caring” in an atheist-evolutionary world. This misconception presupposes (wrongly) two things:
1. That atheism is a belief system, just like any religion (“I choose to see the world this way, and I act accordingly.”) Incorrect. Religions can lead to violent fanatics because of this kind of thinking. If you can choose your morality based on a book, the preachings of a leader, etc., then your normal (evolved!) sense of right and wrong can be twisted. This is how someone can shoot an abortion-doctor and feel righteous about it. Obviously, atheism isn’t about choosing to believe one thing over another, which can be terribly random. Good choices do not stem from belief; unless it’s a very special situation, they usually stem from something much more basic in our brains.
2. That evolution is a philosophy, and that philosophy is “hooray for the strong, too bad for everyone else.” Incorrect. Evolution is a process. It is based on natural selection. This is an observable process, in fact, and not open to debate. Environments simply favor some characteristics over others, when it comes to survival–and environments are constantly changing. That doesn’t mean the definitions of “good” and “bad” are constantly changing! Again, evolution is completely different from moral philosophy. One could research the evolution of ethical thinking in the human, but that’s apples vs. oranges. We don’t operate as some kind of enforcers of evolution, like atheist sharia law! There’s no need to fear a bunch of raving atheists will come around to your house and force you to prove your strength, or die.
Even animals have codes of behavior that they follow so that everyone in the group can live together peaceably. Chimps and gorillas seem capable of expressing love and concern without any god standing nearby to instruct them. Packs of wolves don’t turn on each other at every opportunity, and herds of elephants know to behave towards each other, yet there are no wolf-gods or elephant-gods giving them laws, rules, or commandments. If they could figure it out, why couldn’t humans? We just do it on a more elaborate scale.
Actually Bob, while your idea is both hilarious and useful, did you know that there’s a site where you can fill out a form and be un-baptised?
Wow. Yeah this dude is pretty common with his perceptions on god though. He also assumes that atheists believe in evolution, when it is actually not true. Atheists, for a more accurate description, DO NOT believe in any of the gods that have been presented to man by man at this point. There are no other stipulations required for someone to be atheist. Although, many atheists DO believe evolution to be accurate, there are atheists that DO NOT accept evolution. It is pretty funny how this man brings up evolution when being questioned about his moral ethics, as if evolution is somehow related to the question.
Hey Bob, you should ask Stanic R. Zelimir if he thinks that slaughtering someone brutally, and nailing them to a cross is a ‘moral’ act, that would be acceptable to commit TODAY. I mean, for me, that is one of the MAJOR parts of Christianity that I can’t wrap my head around. People walk around with a necklace of a murdered person who is nailed to a cross as if it is something beautiful. The very idea of Jesus being murdered is horrible in my view, but Christians will say that it was the ultimate sacrifice. Need you Christians be reminded that it was YOUR GOD who decided that the only way to save people from their sins was if Jesus was murdered on a cross? God could have said “Jesus must live a peaceful life, and die at age 75 of natural causes!!! THIS is the only way to save all humans from their sins, and open the gates of heaven!!!” But….we all know that god didn’t do that, did he?
I think that, when the beginner believer is confronting an atheist (I mean, a newbie confronter), all they can do is start from the very beginning: what is life anyway, and how do you live it?
It can be baffling to the atheist to hear this kind of thing, but some believers just never sat and thought about it before. It used to outrage me, but now it’s just kind of tiresome. However, it could be somewhat exciting to walk the newbie through the wonderful world of existentialism, or basic “who am I and why am I here?” kind of stuff. It’s true! Many believers have never sat down and thought about that kind of a thing because the belief makes it unecessary and oftentimes sinful to do so. These are the very questions that should not be asked, and in a way cannot be answered, to them, outside of their belief.
And this is where, with a smart person, a foot can get through the door. Let’s talk about what life is like without a god. Here is where it is possible. Here is X, here is Y, and nowhere in the equation is there a God. These are questions that turn into Koans, and the Buddha never takes the place of any God at all. The Buddha never made the world. In fact, as the saying goes, “You do not see the Buddha. In fact, if you do see the Buddha, you must kill the Buddha.” This is how to think without a God. Life is not a mystery of violent confrontations to be conquered, but a gift to discover. Not only is the “god” inside, but so is the enemy.
So as you can see, you don’t have to think about things like this in a strictly “atheist” way, even though Buddhism is really an atheistic religion. But you think about these things spiritually, almost in ways that the person who sees things spiritually can understand and not feel so defensive.
As I said to the person who assaulted me with a Scrooge like declamation of “Merry Christmas,” “well, considering Jesus would have celebrated Hanukkah, I’ll just wish you a Happy Holidays. For real.”
Great point Marty,
Jesus could have easily lived over 2000 years and still be alive today and still performing miracles, it seems it was no big feat for Adam, Noah, Methuselah, etc. to live to hundreds of years. Unless of course it’s all a bunch of man made lies, which seems to be the case.
Yikes! If God is all that stands between Stanic and anarchy, let him have his God.
How scary to think that people in his part of the world go to him for answers to really important questions.
Funny how there is a real lack of professional bodies or qualifications for religious ‘teachers’ – compared to say driving instructors, electricians or even personal trainers. Why not? Aren’t our souls more important than road safety, correct wiring or low resting heart rate?
You’ve all been raised in a context of a more or less humanist society. If you had been raised by bloodthirsty pirates who survived through murder, do you suppose you would believe the same sets of morals are universal? Their society could not exist long enough to raise children if it were completely amoral, but the morality it would develop would be completely different than ours.
Slavery is bad. Except for most in most historical human society, where it’s fine. Just not here and now. But “effective” slavery, the sort where the underclass live in an entirely different country on the other side of the planet, that’s perfectly moral to us.
Morality simply isn’t universal. Bob can’t really make the unqualified statement that punching your neighbor in the face is wrong. It’s not, without further context. Yes, it has *consequences*, but that’s not at all the same. I think the preacher scored points on that one. Or, at least, he asked a hard question, and got a simpering answer. I can hardly blame him for refusing to continue once he realized the conversation was not in good faith.
Um, SorryHuman, you’re completely wrong. The implied context of punching your neighbor as brought up in this discussion is to make it clear that treating others unfairly is wrong/amoral.
Slavery is *literally* and BY DEFINITION unfair, regardless of what continent you live on. Therefore, it’s amoral. Try again.
I really don’t think that any of these Christians who claim that without God people would run around murdering, stealing, or raping would actually do these things if it were somehow proven that there are no gods. I think they just love to use this fallacious, false-dilemma argument in order to show why they think everybody needs their religion or else to try to demonize atheists as evil, immoral people. Everyone has their own sense of right & wrong, and while there may actually be some people who have just a bible standing in the way of them committing every crime known to humanity, I think the majority would continue to live the way they do now with their perception of right and wrong. And perhaps maybe they’d even mellow out a little without religion and see that there’s really nothing wrong with homosexuality, drinking a beer once in a while, dancing, or premarital sex. I know when I lost my religion I became far more tolerant and less hateful. And I still have my strong values of right & wrong.
But you very well could argue that being a Christian doesn’t guarantee morality, since the vast majority of prison inmates identify as Christian. A very, very tiny percentage are atheists. However, if “no goodness without God” were true, then the vast majority of inmates would be atheists with a tiny population percentage of Christians.
SorryHuman, I have to disagree with you. Bob did use context, that of punching your neighbor in the face and taking his stuff. That is known as strong-arm robbery, which in most places is a felony and could never be morally right.
Now if he were to just leave it at “punching your neighbor in the face” without any context, it’s hard to say whether it would be right or wrong, but it’s usually wrong. Even if you were justified, you’re not going to get along with your neighbor after that. But it’s abundantly clear what Bob meant in his message.
Bob writes: Maybe you’d be a better sprinter, or someone who hides professionally perhaps?
Couldn’t help being reminded of this:
Olympic hide and seek final (starts at 1:10)
Accidentally baptized? Their holy sacraments occur like unexpected farts? Maybe an accidental lawsuit is in order, or at least an accidental smack upside the head.
BOBBY!….glad to see ya still have evidence of your worship to me posted on your site!
Hey, I really couldn’t help but notice you’re getting weak. You OK man?
Either you’re getting ill some way (in a physical way), or your uh, “faith” is waning – hope you’re doing alright man.
Oh btw- LOVE the new drug addict/tattoo/aids patient chick – gorgeous!
Seventh Warrior, is that you?
What makes it wrong to take his stuff? IMHO, humanist values do. Everyone does not hold humanist values. It is not absolutely wrong to take his stuff, it is only wrong in the context of certain values. That’s my point. Morality is not universal because values are not universal.
PS: A real-world value system that people you probably know actually hold is tribalism. Humanism says human suffering is bad, and causing it is wrong. Tribalism would merely make that claim about people from your tribe. It is perfectly okay to steal stuff from people of other tribes, especially if that tribe is bellicose towards yours.
Tribalism is obviously in play in many of the world’s current disputes resulting in huge human suffering. It can also frequently be seen within religious and pseudo-religious organizations, or even individual families.
I kind of agree with him. Looking back on our past(and even our current proclivity for violence and wrongdoing) I think we very much need to be told what’s right and wrong. Fortunately, most of us have parents to do that. I’m sure one of the purposes of religion was specifically for that reason: people really won’t know unless they’re told(read forced and/or terrified into it). A working family unit or better care and education for children makes belief in an invisible ghost in space pretty useless.
Anyone else find it funny that this guy’s name is ‘Stanic’ ‘Satanic’?
I have to call BULLSHIT on Dude for saying he would go around hitting his neighbors and shit. This is classic Xian speaking, when backed into a corner. He is probably thinking he is ‘taking one for jesus’, making himself look bad to fraudulently show that god works. *coughbullshitcough* every fucking time some Xian has ‘proof’ of god its either universal to every religion there has ever been, or full on fraud.
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